Gentoo Live

Protip: don't waste time talking with fascists

@sathariel or commies

@sathariel time better spent punching them

@chj0 yes

@sathariel Also see: wasting time debating the finer points of disingenuous fascist propaganda as if they were good faith arguments that need to be seriously considered.

@sathariel help sachi sempai
I can't remember this tip, even if I should

@vortex_egg as usual, I agree and that would be one of the biggest wastes

@sathariel @vortex_egg To make a counterpoint here, it can be not a waste of time if you are trying to save someone from going down the pipeline. (As in, someone that started to become a fascist, but hasn't gone full on yet). Sometimes, works.

@engineer_kappa @sathariel @vortex_egg Can confirm, have gone after many pipeliners this way myself.

@sathariel @engineer_kappa @vortex_egg Deadass, met a lot of my closest friends this way

@sathariel @engineer_kappa @vortex_egg I suppose it also helps that I have a background in being a pipeliner myself so I can basically speak their language with them

@engineer_kappa @sathariel That’s a good point. From what I’ve read, counter-speech is often an effective tactic for countering things like hate speech, extremist rhetoric, and misinformation, and especially for inoculating bystanders from being influenced.

I think I was thinking more about media punditry that tries to digest and “make sense of” the arguments and thereby gives ground and legitimizes them.

@allison @sathariel @vortex_egg I was never a pipeliner, but had a couple of friends who were back in the day. And wasn't always left-wing, used to be a LibRight at least. In a way I can say that "speaking their language" is REALLY helpful, certainly much more helpful than what many leftists online having been doing lately. With many people on Twitter doing the mindboggling decision of shaming ex-nazis(?)

@engineer_kappa @allison @sathariel @vortex_egg people need to separate people from politics or you just create the conditions of unintelligibility where their propaganda can spread

@engineer_kappa @sathariel

I don't want to say there's only one approach, because social dynamics are complex and everyone's experience is different.

Personally, I was always kind of left-leaning, but sometime around 2014 I got mentally blackjacked by what I now know was one of Steve Bannon's memetic influence ops. Overnight my online information ecosystem lit up with soft-right/alt-right onramp memes, and I started repeating them uncritically.

I think I got out of it because everyone in my real-life community told me it was bullshit, shunned me, and then I was encouraged to get mental health treatment (which precipitated a kind of multi-year self-cult-deprogramming).

There's a quote, “You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into," which I think applied in my case... I didn't believe the things I (briefly) did because I had thought them through logically, but because I was enfangled with propaganda.

If you can effectively speak the language to reason people out of it, that's great though.