Gentoo Live

When I say Javashit I mean JavaScript

@resynth1943 JavaScript is too fundamentally flawed. With WebAssembly it’s going to end up being useless anyways.

@resynth1943 Yeah you can use JavaScript, but there are far better tools out there. Especially when there’s things like huge runtime costs, poor language design, etc. There are pros and cons, and the cons usually far outweigh the positives.

I’m kind of happy Go is taking off in terms of WebAssembly. At least if I’m ever programming web apps at gunpoint it would be less sufferable. I’m antiwebapp in general so I’m not worried about PWAs being shit since they already are.


@resynth1943 also I don’t know what this Cordial thing is you’re talking about

@resynth1943 oh wait it’s that client

@resynth1943 all PWAs suck when native programs exist. Browsers being used to write full pieces of software was a mistake.

Also I’m talking about at the language level. There’s a lot of quirks, unexpected behaviour, and suckage. I’d say there’s languages that are more or less a direct upgrade (Go seems to be good at everything C isn’t).

@resynth1943 native programs are better. Having a browser waste 500MB+ of RAM just to run a chat client was a mistake.

Yeah you can avoid the pitfalls of J$, but it’s unnecessary suffering. Both from a developer perspective and an end user perspective.

@resynth1943 Because if they did they could be using a myriad of other languages.

My point is that PWAs suck in comparison to native programs. From an end-user perspective especially. It’s not just the actions of some devs that make it bad, it’s the concept as a whole and a reliance on bloat to make it even work (a web browser just to display a chat app or an image viewer is ridiculous and not sustainable from a resources perspective). Even if it didn’t use J$ I’d still not enjoy it.

@resynth1943 my point is that when you’re writing software outside of a browser J$ isn’t particularly strong. Yes QT/GTK/whatever bindings exist, but J$ isn’t exactly conducive to writing good maintainable software. Especially software on the desktop. You have a C compiler with your system.

Of course if you like JavaScript more power to you, but there are costs asides from developer costs. Suffering with setting up the runtime, keeping it up to date, making code portable… it’s not fun for the end user if the house of cards fall over. Deno is far less insufferable but V8 will be V8.

A good way to think about things is to ask yourself if it’s maintainable to write every userspace program in a certain language. Even the startup time sucks for this, let alone the performance and memory problems. I’ve used CLI J$ programs and it ate ram and resources like Ben Shapiro eats dry pussy.


> Sure, but that's not really a reason to avoid using a language. Does your distribution come with a Go compiler? 😛

My point is that you have better tools included with your system even.

> 👀 this is ridiculous.

Nah. The amount of shit out there in J$ is amazing. Compare that to the amount of shit you see with C or Go. Go is so excellently designed finding shitty Go code is like finding a leprechaun on Friday the 13th under ladders.

> But... none of these annoynces are unique to JavaScript.

Node is something special. This is a criticism of Node to be clear. C/Go/Rust/Demo etc don't have this problem. I also don't think languages like Python are that great because of this.

> Well (I didn't know Ben did that), Node CLI programs aren't particularly good. You really feel how much quicker Deno is in comparison, especially when Node has a very complex module resolution algorithm, which is performed at runtime...

Deno isn't there yet. There are improvements, but problems with the V8 runtime continue to exist. Deno is far faster but not to the level of C or Go where it feels natural to use.

> Node is shit. Correct.

We can agree on one thing :)

@webb @resynth1943 I hope and similar client-side scripting languages decide to not run autonatically and do require licensing, copyright and complete corresponding source information to be presented before asking for execution. Otherwise we run another round of

@adfeno well that’s just a consequence of running software in the browser.

@adfeno LibreJS exists